Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V13_7/V13_778.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #778

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 13 : Issue 778

Today's Topics:
              Re: SPACE Digest V13 #639
     Re: United Space Federation IEC/BOD/Members & Supporters E-M
             Re: Access to Space
               mining asteroids
             Re: Mining El Dorado
            SPACE Digest V13 #643
            SPACE Digest V13 #638
         Gonetz = E-mail via Soviet Satellite

Administrivia:

    Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to
  [e-mail].  Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests,
  should be sent to [e-mail], or, if urgent, to
             [e-mail]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 22 Jun 91 00:11:22 GMT
From: cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!hela![e-mail]  (Allen W. Sherzer)
Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V13 #639

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>>Due to the probability of our achieving economical fusion in the near
>>future, I seriously doubt SPS will ever be important.

>Youv'e mixed your "probably" 's  with your "will" 's.   tsk tsk.  Fusion has
>'probably' been in our future for 30 years now.  "It doesn't feel far away".

It doesn't matter if we get fusion or not. If we don't get it then
SPS is a good idea, if we do then we need a good source of Helium 3.
Either way we need 'photons from space'.

   Allen
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|Allen W. Sherzer |   DETROIT: Where the weak are killed and eaten.         |
|   [e-mail]   |                                                         |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jun 91 23:42:53 GMT
From: van-bc!rsoft!mindlink![e-mail]  (Nick Janow)
Subject: Re: United Space Federation IEC/BOD/Members & Supporters E-M

[e-mail] (Dani Eder) writes:

> To the rest of the NET: I oppose the formation of a USF of the type
> presentented by Mr. Dobson, for reasons which I will be happy to discuss
> further with anyone who wants to.

Yes, I think that would be an interesting topic for discussion.  I haven't
considered the various aspects of the issue carefully, but at first though I
don't agree with the approach.  Putting all the power in one organization is
like "putting all your eggs in one basket."  It's all too possible for such an
organization to turn into a bureaucracy who's only purpose is to serve
itself--at the cost of the ideals that brought it into existence.  :(

I'd much rather see the government provide long-term investment and support for
space development.  This should be risk-sharing, not outright funding.  Even
such an agency should not be overly powerful.  It should allow private
initiatives to compete fairly.
--

[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jun 91 19:47:00 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!brolga!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au![e-mail]  (Rhys Weatherley)
Subject: Re: Access to Space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew DeLuca) writes:

>Manufacturing indeed creates wealth, as it adds value to something.  What
>does a comsat add value to?  Airplanes don't create wealth, either, they
>just provide a service.

A comsat adds value to the information it transmits.  Businesses rise and
fall these days on the relibility and timeliness of the information they
process.  "Garbage-in Garbage-Out".  If your business is processing incorrect
or old data, then it's not going to get anywhere.  I'm not much on history,
but I believe that the Reuter's new service became extremely powerful because
they kept finding better ways to get the news first - carrier pidgeons,
the telegraph, etc.

Computers have revolutionised the world, and comsats have made it much easier
to transmit data around.  I don't know the differences in cost between comsats
and under-sea cables, but it all comes down to what I call the
"interconnectedness of economies" (for want of a better term):  Comsats allow
information to be processed faster and in a more up to date way.  Hence a
business does better in the market-place.  Hence the same business realises
that comsats are beneficial and sinks more funds into satellites and other
space services.  Once you start getting into mass production and launching
(metaphorically speaking) of comsats, the cost per comsat drops and more of
the money being sunk into them can be used for other space projects at that
point.  Starts to look "self-sustaining" huh?

You can then go onto to space-based mining using these extra funds, which will
in turn create more revenue to be put into manned missions to the far reaches
of the solar system if you like.  It may take a while.  Consider how long
it took to get from the wheel to the steam engine.  Just because we've gone
from the steam engine to the computer in a few hundred years doesn't mean
we have to go from the moon to Mars half a century.  The Earth is going to be
around for quite a long time yet.  Stop being so impatient.

The pen will always be mightier than the sword, and in this age, information
is mightier than tin cans. :-)

Rhys.

+=====================+==================================+
||  Rhys Weatherley   |  The University of Queensland,  ||
||  [e-mail]  |  Australia.  G'day!!            ||
||       "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"         ||
+=====================+==================================+

------------------------------

Date: 20 Jun 91 15:42:14 GMT
From: agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!pitt!nss![e-mail]  (Paul Blase)
Subject: mining asteroids

to: [e-mail] (Steven King), et al


 SK>    Of course, all of this presumes that even if you were to get
 SK>  there and the processes were viable, that the asteriod is yours
 SK>  to mine. International law, as I understand it, is less than
 SK>  clear on this issue.  A few billion in precious metals might
 SK>  buy a lot of influence, but it would also buy a lot of envy.

I would be even more worried about the flack I'd be getting from the
miner's and steelworker's unions!  You would have to be very careful
to make sure that few jobs are lost in the long run (retrain existing
miners to work in space).

--- via Silver Xpress V2.26 [NR]
--
Paul Blase - via FidoNet node 1:129/104
UUCP: ...!pitt!nss!Paul.Blase
INTERNET: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jun 91 17:51:55 GMT
From: tristan![e-mail]  (Loren Petrich)
Subject: Re: Mining El Dorado

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Charles Frank Radley) writes:

>While the ancient El Dorado never existed, we now have
>a confirmed sighting ( by NASA 0 as of a couple of weeks ago,
>of a large near-Earth asteroid composed of metal.

    But if this asteroid is similar in composition to metallic
meteorites, it would be mostly iron and nickel. I'm sure that there
have been some studies of how much of the various elements there is in
various iron/nickel meteorites; how much gold there is, for instance.
Does anyone have any figures here?


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Loren Petrich, the Master Blaster: [e-mail]

Since this nodename is not widely known, you may have to try:

[e-mail]

------------------------------

ReSent-Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Resent-Date:  Fri, 21 Jun 91 17:42:24 EDT
Resent-From: Tom McWilliams <[e-mail]>
Resent-To: [e-mail]
Date:         Fri, 14 Jun 1991 05:04:21 TZONE
Reply-To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail]
Subject:      SPACE Digest V13 #643
Comments: To: [e-mail]
To: david polito <[e-mail]>, Tom McWilliams <[e-mail]>

Subject: Re: Extra Solar Colonization

>>>Also, they might preferentially settle stars totally unlike out sun. For
>>>example, a planet in an open star cluster would be an ideal place for a
>>>colony. There would be many planetary systems, all within a few light years.
>>>If these were setteled first, it might be quite a while before anyone bothere
>>Open clusters would be fairly bad for a civilization with a long term
>>view, too violent and too short lived. If the halo population has
>>planets it would be the best bet, although the stars may be too red
>>and dim. In either case there are plenty of second generation G
>>dwarfs, and we _know_ they can suffice.

There are many multi-G-year old open clusters.  They would be no good for
living near because either they wouldn't have planets (building material),
becasue they hadn't formed (or couldn't), or their planets would have been
expelled or crushed to dust, or dumped on a star by interactions between
the stars.  Though with all their gas and dust, they would make good places
to 'wind up' a ram jet, sort of like the ring a cyclotron starts a particle
in.

The halo population has almost no metal in the stars, and hence, are useless
except as energy-producers.  You couldn't build anything, unless of course
someone perfects the transmutation of matter.

>As a mechanism for slowing a colonization wave, open star clusters
>fail; they could be filled by exponential growth in short order.

They fail becuase no one would stop. (exept scientists and tourists) :-)

Tom
Acknowledge-To: <18084TM@MSU>

------------------------------

ReSent-Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Resent-Date:  Fri, 21 Jun 91 18:53:43 EDT
Resent-From: Tom McWilliams <[e-mail]>
Resent-To: [e-mail]
Date:         Fri, 14 Jun 1991 02:13:39 TZONE
Reply-To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail]
Subject:      SPACE Digest V13 #638
Comments: To: [e-mail]
To: david polito <[e-mail]>, Tom McWilliams <[e-mail]>

Subject: Expedition to the stars (hypothetical)

>If a team of explorers were to hop a ship to a nearby star, what
>should they take and why?      ^^^
                                    Are they hitch-hiking? :-)

Seeds - in case they find sunlight and liquid water.
embryos, eggs, etc. - Same idea.
Sunglasses - stars are really bright.

Tom
Acknowledge-To: <18084TM@MSU>

------------------------------

Date: 21 Jun 91 19:02:04 GMT
From: well![e-mail]  (Robert Horvitz)
Subject: Gonetz = E-mail via Soviet Satellite



Last week I posted a query about "Gonetz," a store-and-forward
packet radio data network based on constellations of low earth
orbit satellites that the USSR plans to implement.

Jane's Defence Weekly had a brief passage about it in their 1
June 1991 issue.  It is apparently based on an existing
military/security system called Sextet, which Jane's described
as "the only truly operational lightsat system in the world."
(Gonetz is a Russian word meaning "messenger.")

Thanks to the magic of Usenet, Ed O'Grady ([e-mail])
saw my query and replied by email.  His company, DYJ Technologies,
was misidentified by Jane's as providing marketing services for
Gonetz.  They are in fact consulting on the project, but not
marketing it.  Anyway, he provided more detail about Gonetz, and
put me in touch with Vern Riportella, whose company is marketing
Gonetz services in North America.  Vern is well-known to ham
radio operators for his involvement in AMSAT-NA and hamsat
technology generally.

To summarize a series of phonecalls with both men, the idea to
market this technology outside the Soviet Union came from
Soyuzmedinform (the All-Union Medical Informatics bureau of the
USSR health ministry).  They originally saw it as a way to send
critical health information to and from areas not served by
conventional electronic communications, especially in rural
areas and developing countries.  But recognizing that this
application might not generate enough money or traffic to pay
for the system, they began thinking in more general terms.  They
organized a "Consortium of Small Satellite Constructors and
Service Providers (COSSCASP) to adapt the Sextet technology and
make it available worldwide.  In addition to Soyuzmedinform, the
current members of COSSCASP are:

  NPO Precision Instruments:  a Moscow-based organization that
  designs scientific equipment.  They will design Gonetz's space
  and terrestrial segments, and develop functional compatibility
  standards for user terminals produced by others.

  NPO Applied Mechanics:  a large production facility based in
  Krasnayarsk, they build most of the Soviet Union's satellites.
  (By the way, NPO is a Russian acryonym for "scientific
  production organization.")

  Network Services International:  NSI is Riportella's company
  (see below for address).

Many aspects of the system have yet to be defined.  They expect
the orbital configuration ultimately to involve 5 or 6 orbital
planes with 6 satellites in each plane.  (Sextets are launched 6
at a time on one rocket.)  That way, users anywhere in the world
would not have to wait more than 20 minutes for a satellite to
came into "view."

Gonetz is expected to serve both fixed and mobile terminals with
a variety of digital modes, primarily email, but also fax and
maybe voicemail.  Apparently the digital links in the USSR's
phone system use continuously variable slope delta modulation,
so they are thinking of using that for voice in the Gonetz
system.  Riportella is arguing for linear predictive coding, as
that requires much lower data rates.  But they are still unsure
what applications will be most attractive to users, and are
assuming the basic service will be email.

It is also unclear what radio bands will be used, or whether a
new international allocation is needed.  Gonetz was originally
planned for the 200-400 MHz range, but that presents some
coordination problems with US military systems.  The Sextet
framework is apparently flexible enough that the radio issues
don't have to be nailed down just yet.  O'Grady said they will
probably go along with whatever WARC-92 decides.

They hope to launch the first batch of satellites in the fourth
quarter of 1993.  Initially, all messages will be processed
through ground stations to reach end users.  The process will be
fully automated.  A computer will read the destination address
and determine which satellite provides the fastest delivery
route.  By 1995, they hope to have narrowband inter-satellite
links working.  That will eliminate the ground link in many
cases, speeding delivery and supporting two-way real-time
interactive channels.  They anticipate that handheld terminals
will communicate at 9600 baud, fixed terminals at 56KB.

Recognizing that the USSR has problems with quality control for
consumer goods, they will encourage third parties to design and
manufacture equipment for end users.  All of the handheld units
will be built outside the USSR.

No price schedule or rate card has been devised yet.  Because
the satellite technology is already mature, and Soviet launch
services are relatively inexpensive, they expect the entire
system to be built for around a billion ruples.  Pick your
favorite conversion ratio to figure that in dollars, but it
should be less than half the cost of Iridium, and the user fees
will hopefully be competitive with Orbcomm's.

For more information about Gonetz, contact:

    Vern Riportella
    COSSCASP VP for Marketing
    Network Services International
    P.O. Box 357
    Warwick, NY 10990 USA
    voice: 1-914-986-6904
    fax: [phone]
    email: rip@cdp   <also>   sfmt: rip
    mcimail: 324-7389

            ---Robert Horvitz
               Internews Radio Consultant
               Independent Electronic Media Program
                  for East & Central Europe
               1122-1/2  E Street, SE
               Washington, DC 20003-2232 USA
               email:  [e-mail]
                       rhorvitz@uunet!capital.com

(follow-ups to sci.space, please)
--
!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|.!.|
Robert Horvitz    1122-1/2 E St. SE    Washington, DC 20003-2232    USA
                      uucp:  ...uunet!capital!rhorvitz

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V13 #778
*******************